if you are a small time business or self employed and you rely on ad revenue, i've got news for you: just like i would never be okay with you paying less than minimum wage so you can live out your fantasy of running a business, i'm not okay with you using predatory tactics to bring in an income either

there are so many ways to make money relatively ethically that are even more profitable, like selling merch. c'mon

advertising/monetization opinions. Show more

ways to make money besides hosting ads for big corporations:
- merch (tshirts, stickers, prints of your work)
- patreon
- crowdfunding
- donation button

@ctrlaltdog and maybe the businesses could sell their products instead of making ad filled sites with annoying popups.. 🤔 Like online news sites could do some extended journalism pieces. But yeah, in my opinion if companies rely on ads, then their business model is doomed to fail eventually.

@ctrlaltdog Unfortunately none of those options even come close to making the same kind of money that ads do.

@ChrisWere @ctrlaltdog that does not change the predatory nature of ads, which is the key criticism provided here

at what point do we stop sacrificing ethics for profit without a fair debate? or even at all?

@oletedstilts @ctrlaltdog Obviously it doesn't, but if I could survive off Patreon, I'd cut the ads off my channel in a heartbeat.

It seems people would typically rather watch ads than pay.

That being said, many people consider Patreon, PayPal, selling useless merch to be unethical too. And it's not like Librepay is the reliable solution we wanted it to be.

@ChrisWere @ctrlaltdog ive not seen an argument of patreon being unethical that didnt involve the person receiving the donations doing something unethical, same for any donation format

as for merch, it all boils down to how much you wanna critique consumerism in DIY, bc i dont view this as any different: selling merch you made yourself or, or hosting it up on another service with your designs
BUT merch is also not really all that viable anymore, ill agree there

@ChrisWere @ctrlaltdog regardless of pragmatism, its still ethically dubious, which is the whole point
its not that i dont understand why its done

more on point: if the intent of ad revenue is to self employ or run a business (including just reimbursement for time invested in projects), it isnt everyone elses burden to make the ends meet
if the intent of ad revenue is to keep something online, there are MANY workarounds to this

@oletedstilts @ctrlaltdog Personally, I make my content available on other platforms like PeerTube, but that's thanks to the generosity of the person running the instance (for which I am eternally grateful).

I wish there was a better way too. I get sponsorship offers about once a week, but they tend to be from shady companies.

@ChrisWere @ctrlaltdog there are many better ways, you highlighted one just now

they only tend to fall apart if you have commercialization in mind, which i kinda feel like you do if youre talking about sponsorship offers
this isnt some mortal sin, its just also not my problem as a consumer, if you dont like it there are many more things about business youll also hate

if it were just about content then wed be aspiring together toward a world of creativity without the limitations of capitalism

@oletedstilts @ctrlaltdog Tbh, I'm just trying to make ends meet. But I get that that's not your problem.

@ChrisWere @ctrlaltdog entirely fair and not your fault at all, i apologize if ive come off that way

when i say its not my problem, i dont mean it in the sense of that i shouldnt care, i mean it in that i shouldnt have to be wary of folks middlemanning some pretty fucked concepts like ad companies tracking me just for pennies to keep a site afloat i kinda like or am even just trying out

that some of us have been put to "making ends meet" via whatever means we can manage online is garbage

@oletedstilts @ctrlaltdog Of course making ends meeting is not a catch all excuse for bad behaviour.

I explained how I personally approach it the best way I can think of. I'm sorry if that's garbage, it might be the best I can do though.

@ctrlaltdog but some merch might be produced under not-so-ethical conditions

@succfemboi i mean there is no ethical consumption under capitalism but we can try at least the find the method which brings about the least harm and the most reward (at least for those who actually need it to survive and thrive, rather than those just looking to make themselves richer)

@succfemboi and it is true that a lot of the conditions under which merch is produced are disgusting, so i guess it wouldn't be the best choice. but there still are other options

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